Ibrahim Yaganov: We have the right to change their attitude to Georgia
Yaganov Ibrahim , who recently returned from a private visit to Georgia, said agency “Adyghe Hekum and mak. Voice of Circassia” a few questions. “The Voice of Circassia”: Ibrahim, the general public in various ways by the news of your visit to Georgia. Tell me, what was the reason for your trip?
Ibrahim Yaganov: In recent years, in my virtual space made new friends from Georgia. Frankly, I have long dealt with the Georgians, taking them away in Nalchik. The first time they had me in 1997. At the request of the Chechens in Nalchik, I took two Georgians, who were refugees from Sukhumi. The two fought and both were members of the Abkhaz parliament in exile, that is, in Tbilisi. We had a whole week, and discussed many issues. They were very awkward, but at my insistence, we sent them into the city alone. In the evening they talked with enthusiasm, as in the cafe at the supermarket met Nalchik Georgians in the Georgian language that told them how they live and how they are treated. Even then they said that the war in Abkhazia was a big mistake. None of their colleagues did not think to give up Abkhazia, but they also acknowledged that the force option does not address this issue. They surprised me with his statement that said that they want to talk with Abkhazia, which needs dialogue, this dialogue without intermediaries is not obtained. And as long as the mediator will be Russia, this dialogue will not end. They would like to see in the North Caucasian peoples mediators, in particular Kabardins.
I am very happy that I made new friends in Tbilisi. My trip was unofficial, I was invited to the birthday of one of the members of the Circassian center, respectively, do not miss the opportunity to get acquainted with the center of the Circassian and what is going on in Tbilisi.
To my surprise, I heard the same concept of relations with Abkhazia, as expressed by my guests in 1997.
There are no preconditions, and talk about the relationship with Abkhazia, except it was not. They were very interested in how the Abkhaz live and what they think about Georgia, but no more. In all the talk was not even a pitch against Russia and against Abkhazia. The conversation was conducted only for Georgia and for friendly relations with the North Caucasian peoples.
After the war, we all agreed that there was no relationship with Georgia is not as long as it does not recognize the independence of Abkhazia. But the situation in Abkhazia, Georgia, and a new policy toward the North Caucasian peoples dictate new terms. And at the end of the last 20 years, I believe that we have the right to change its attitude towards Georgia. Moreover, Georgia has taken the initiative and make the first step to the meeting.
Since the beginning of the war in Abkhazia, this year marks 20 years. As I wrote before, it took plenty of time to restart our relationship. I believe that twenty years is enough time for mourning for the victims of this war. I think that should put an end to this era – a whole generation. If we do not put an end to this war, then there will always be a danger that all the spilled blood would be in vain. And the problem we leave to their children. They will be much more complicated peaceful and civilized way to resolve this issue. I am sure that there is no light on the Abkhaz, who would want his children to have experienced the same thing that they experienced during the war. Of course, we are talking about those who survived the war itself. But those who have had this war a distant relation, in all likelihood did not feel it.
“The Voice of Circassia”: How you met Georgia?
Ibrahim Yaganov: We had information that after the war, Eduard Shevardnadze, held in the Parliament Act, under which all those who fought in Abkhazia, are war criminals, and their detention will be brought to justice. Many of my friends were great fears that I just want to lure and arrest. Frankly, I also thought about it, but the desire to see everything with my own eyes what were talking about Georgia, it was great. In addition, it was a great desire to make some change in our relationship, and find a way out of this impasse. In this regard, I still could not resist the temptation and went.
We met in a Caucasian, as was supposed at all times, when Caucasians came to the house guest. We met at his door – at the border. There are no restrictions and a framework was not, fulfill all our whims, desires, and answered all our questions. Of course, there were many conversations at the table, wine and toast, as it was in former times. Nowhere do not slipped any shadow of resentment and hostility. After each meeting, I remain very positive experience.
“The Voice of Circassia”: Your previous visit to Georgia was held in 1988. Since that time, of course, many things have changed. How do you assess the changes in the country?
Ibrahim Yaganov: impressions were very positive. Georgia, who appeared before me, completely different than I imagined it. More surprised me is how such a short period of the Georgian authorities managed to break the mentality of the population. Even ordinary people on the street, with whom we talked, reminisced about the past of Georgia, and the past is before 2003, how about some not very positive historical period in the history of the departed. What is striking is how Georgia has solved the problem with crime and corruption. Once the former smithy “thieves in law” in the former Soviet Union, in a short time became a territory of democracy rule of law. The so-called “thieves in law” suddenly found themselves on a completely different area, where they have been more favorable – in Moscow.
There were also informal meetings with officials and deputies, who were related to relations with the North Caucasus. I was struck by their statesmanship. We then used the ministry – it is private property of the Minister, which he heads, and none of the other officials will not even think of interfering in the “garden” of another minister. They did not think about your garden, to my surprise, I discovered that they thought the state, and that all young people.
For example, the Minister of Economy, one of the key ministries in the State turned out to be a 30-year-old young girl who has no problems have would be on the podium. But she bravely handles the economy, not looking at the main head of state. No doubt the competence and education of these young leaders I have not arisen. And those “wise” and “deeply experienced” old-timers of government whose positions they occupied, rally today in the camp of the so-called “opposition”. I was surprised that the vast majority of this population – the former police officers who were dismissed by order of one in one day. And about the new police can talk for hours. Their work feels at every corner and every street.Just 10 years ago had said that Georgia’s “traffic cop” does not take money, it would have been a funny anecdote. Our police for no reason today to believe in the fact that the Georgian police, which they knew in the recent past, that’s so easy to give up such a “profitable business”, where the income exceeds the limit of all possible interest. But it is a fact that I have seen with my own eyes. “cops” in Georgia is not there.
This can talk for hours, but the biggest thing that struck me is that the state apparatus is working not for themselves, and the state.
“The Voice of Circassia”: How do you assess further the Georgian-Circassian relations?
Ibrahim Yaganov: I very much hope that our relationship will develop a positive and dynamic. I understand that there are all sorts of concerns against the backdrop of worsening Russian-Georgian relations. But during the Soviet era, and now was so that the state was in itself, but the people itself. Public relations is the competence of the heads of Russia and Georgia. Despite their condition, I’ve seen a lot in Tbilisi representatives of the Russian elite of business, in particular, are all fueling “Lukoil”, and a network of casinos, “Shang-Grill” were deported from Moscow, well settled in Tbilisi, a very large flow of tourists from Russia . The Greek mythological saying, “What is allowed to Jupiter is not permitted bull” here can not act. At the level of public diplomacy between Russia and Georgia are very serious positive contacts. Why are these contacts can not be with us, the immediate neighbors? Moreover, a further decision of the Abkhazian problem is directly dependent on these relationships and contacts. By and large, these positive relationships already exist in Abkhazia. I saw two cars in Tbilisi with the Abkhaz numbers. They are passers-by did not respond. I’m scared to imagine what would happen if the car will appear in Sukhumi with Georgian license plates. Big turnover in Abkhazia from Georgia is not telling the whole story because the Georgians and Abkhazians want to cheat, but for the reason that in Georgia for business is much more favorable than in Russia. I already wrote that the fact of the Abkhazian passport, which is not legitimate in Russia, Georgia, provides certain benefits, simply paradoxical.
All this I would call simply designed, modern, democratic politics. In international politics, this strategy has great advantages over the cunning and craftiness. His “charm” I have experienced in their own skin when switched back to the Russian border. I was kept for about 3 hours at customs, with nothing presented and explained the reasons for this. “In all likelihood, looking for the layout of the strategic nuclear facilities in Russia.” 😉 But still do not understand – why on the way back ?
Folk wisdom and diplomacy were always higher than the state. When government agencies came to a deadlock, public diplomacy has always come into its own and found a way out of any impasse. In Abkhazia, now there is such a process.I think this is a very positive thing that must be maintained and developed. The Circassians also have the right to restore their historic friendly relations with Georgia and hope for the development of these relationships – in business, in politics and in all other industries. Especially since no pre-conditions are not pushing the Georgians. We must get down to a friendly outstretched hand. So we prescribe Adyghe Habze!
“The Voice of Circassia”: How embraced your trip guys with whom you have fought? Do you have expressed an opinion on this?
Ibrahim Yaganov: Before leaving Georgia, I have met with their colleagues and discuss the matter. Everyone with whom I fought all these years, support a close relationship, much to my surprise, took it very positively. They all realize that to live on just enjoying the situation, it is impossible. Many who fought lost everything except the memories and joys of victory in an unfinished war. In Abkhazia, there are forces that live on it and it is a key strategic resource in their activities and build on it throughout his career and politics. Everyone understands that live on the values of war, which left a legacy of post-communist period, the more impossible. At the expiration of any period necessary to establish friendly relations with all neighbors. This process is not against Russia, but for our people, for our future.
“The Voice of Circassia”: Now, many are waiting with interest the reaction of Abkhazia – as it treats this trip? Expected negative, we can say zealous reaction from Abkhazia. What do you think about this?
Ibrahim Yaganov: All my friends with whom I fought, who shared the challenges of a complex war period, are silent.They know me, I think that does not even allow the thought that I could bring something to sell, etc. I know that many are disappointed by all that is happening around them in Abkhazia, but to do anything about it may not. And in this situation is the great wisdom, of course, remain silent. I understand this perfectly. I know for sure – as long as they do not talk to me, and I did not listen, no conclusions, the more applications will not do. They understand what to look for a way out of this deadlock between Georgia and Abkhazia. Everyone knows that the situation in Abkhazia will change dramatically after the 2014 Olympics. No one knows – which way it will change and what to expect from this situation. In all this, a little nice.
As for all sorts of people, as I wrote earlier, performing during the war of every kind “mission impossible” and Abkhazia were everywhere, but not in Abkhazia, and now distributing a tantrum at the mere word “Georgia”, I have them a little concerned. I gave them a unique opportunity to justify their own people and to rehabilitate the authorities. Let use.
“The Voice of Circassia”: Recently, there was information that is prepared in Sukhumi conference, which will be discussed in the Abkhaz-Circassian relations. You are going to go there?
Ibrahim Yaganov: While to me such an invitation has been received, but I also possess such information. If the conference is, and I’ll be invited, be sure to go. We urgently need to talk, to destroy the existing negative stereotypes.Our people should not become hostage to the interests of individual clans, trying to cash in on anything, even on existing historical problems. Need to move forward – to create. And this can only be through dialogue, not only with the Abkhazians, but with the same Georgians. I understand that my past actions will make a great havoc, but sooner or later someone has to do it. I can not stick to the strategy of “let anyone, not me.” The position of “favorite people to stay,” especially from the authorities, not productive. I am a little interested. We must move forward, we urgently need to ensure a decent future for their descendants. For that laid down their lives all those who perished in this war. I did not trust existing wondering “insincere hysteria” in Georgia. I’m more worried about the future. IA “Adyghe Hekum and mak. Voice of Circassia” thank Ibrahim Yaganov for the interview and congratulations on the birth of Ibrahim’s first foal this year to its stable. March 16, 2012 © “Adyghe Hekum and mak. Voice of Circassia” . Hekupsa.com
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